Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 04:30:14 PDT From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.Edu Reply-To: TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu Precedence: Bulk Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #128 To: tcp-group-digest TCP-Group Digest Fri, 24 Jun 94 Volume 94 : Issue 128 Today's Topics: [BTITMARS%ESOC.BITNET@vm.gmd.de: help ip tos] Editor diferent than VI (2 msgs) History and the Final TNC IP-TNC (2 msgs) IP-TNC, the beginings? (3 msgs) MX or CNAME (2 msgs) Router Project (TNC from Hell) (2 msgs) Telnet Client for JNOS Send Replies or notes for publication to: . Subscription requests to . Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 02:33:27 -0700 From: Phil Karn Subject: [BTITMARS%ESOC.BITNET@vm.gmd.de: help ip tos] To: BARRY TITMARSH As is documented in the comments for the function axui_send() in ax25.c, the rules for choosing between connected-mode (I frame) AX25 and connectionless (UI frame) mode are as follows: 1. If the DTR subfield within the TOS field is "low delay" (10 hex) then send the datagram as a UI frame. 2. If the DTR is "high reliability" (4 hex) then send the datagram in an I frame. 3. Otherwise, use the default encapsulation mode for the interface (ax25ui or ax25i). When IP fragments are created, the TOS field in each fragment should be a copy of the original. I.e., all should be sent the same way. I can't see any reason for your observed behavior. Are you sure it's something that occurs in my code, as opposed to a modified version? Phil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 19:53:45 UTC From: eb3aod@albinyana.etse.urv.es Subject: Editor diferent than VI To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu Anybody knows a editor to use with a Unix machine via telnet conection (emulation VT100 or VT220 so on) difetent than the VI Editor?? What ftp site can i find it?? Thank and sorry to lover's VI ;-) ... Saludos de Curro eb3aod e-mail : curro@etse.urv.es AX25 : eb3aod@ea3rdt.eat.esp.eu "Data Highway" : In my Dreamland ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 14:36:22 -0400 (EDT) From: sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams) Subject: Editor diferent than VI To: nos-bbs@hydra.carleton.ca > > Anybody knows a editor to use with a Unix machine via telnet conection > (emulation VT100 or VT220 so on) difetent than the VI Editor?? > > What ftp site can i find it?? > > Thank and sorry to lover's VI ;-) ... > > > Saludos de Curro eb3aod > > e-mail : curro@etse.urv.es > AX25 : eb3aod@ea3rdt.eat.esp.eu > "Data Highway" : In my Dreamland ... In order of ease of use and reverse capability: Pico (part of PINE mail package dist., easy and somewhat emacs like). uEmacs (Microemacs, shareware, small but good, very portable) GNU Emacs (large, fantastic capabilities, the ultimate editor, X support, etc.) sdw -- Stephen D. Williams Local Internet Gateway Co.; SDW Systems 513 496-5223APager LIG dev./sales Internet: sdw@lig.net OO R&D Source Dist. By Horse: 2464 Rosina Dr., Miamisburg, OH 45342-6430 Comm. Consulting ICBM: 39 34N 85 15W I love it when a plan comes together Newbie Notice: (Surfer's know the score...) I speak for LIGCo., CCI, myself, and no one else, regardless of where it is convenient to post from or thru. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 13:09:38 -0500 (CDT) From: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil (Steve Sampson) Subject: History and the Final TNC To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU agodwin@acorn.co.uk writes: > I was horrified at the short distance we've come since 1987. The distance is short, because the trip is short. Everything that can be said about packet radio has been repeated several times. You take data and modulate the damn RF. Big deal. Where the pissing contests have been is in content of that modulation. Not much debate about type of modulation (which may be more important). A lot of Ka-Ka about VC v DG and the political wars that it generated. It seems both sides lost, but it made for great heated discussions that made having your coffee and donuts in the morning more enjoyable. Finally you probably shouldn't judge the journey on what is printed in the tcp-group archives. Only a fraction of the discussions get in there, while the subscribers talk amongst themselves. Sort of like contract side meetings with only the major points being printed :-) I find the word "horrified" pretty amusing; what did you expect to find given the state of packet radio in most communities. Packet radio will always be a side interest in amateur radio. It can't compete with CW W.A.S. awards or weekend contests with robot cq machines. Packet means sharing, and that's a hard road to follow in most first-world countries. Mike Cheponis keeps bringing me back to reality. Every once in a while I get excited about some thread and make a comment about something (like IP-TNC) that I would like to persue. He is absolutly right when he says "Just use a PC." I guess the reason I fall into these traps is because the PC is rather boring and omnipresent (is that the word). I keep thinking it ought to be a toaster type gadget that you stick in a corner of the shack. But he's right, it's very cheap just to buy the hardware plug it together and get on the air. It's not toaster size, but can be done without all the other PC trappings (Monitor, keyboard, etc). For example a cheap AT, PI card(s), Ethernet card, and a hard disk will be all you ever need all the way up to any speed the typical amateur can afford. Just say NOS :-) > It's no wonder that some of those contributors have disappeared from > the list Most of them graduated and went to work... -- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 13:39:00 -0000 From: mikebw@bilow.bilow.uu.ids.net (Mike Bilow) Subject: IP-TNC To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU Cc: cwi@netcom.com MC> If you need more address space than the 64K that God intended you to have, MC> then you must be writing inefficient programs! ;-) Then again, there is the TheNet X1 series, where the TNC has an upper and a lower moby selected by using a port line as an address bit on the ROM. MC> We all love building hardware (!), but I've come to the same conclusion as MC> Phil: you can do it cheaper with a PC and a plug-in card in almost every MC> situation. That's what I have found, also. Bill Rossi, KA1QYP, and I have been working on the design of a repeater controller, and we keep coming back to the idea of using one of the mini 386SX motherboards you can buy anywhere for $70 brand new plus a couple of parallel ports. The main attraction is the simplicity of writing software for it in a high level language for which we already have all of the development tools. -- Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 14:22:41 -0700 From: Phil Karn Subject: IP-TNC To: agodwin@acorn.co.uk >The biggest difficulty with this sort of project is that it can easily >be a lot of effort down the drain - you get a system working, then the >supply of surplus gear dries up and you can't get any further. Good for >a local fix, but not worth a big investment. Exactly why I prefer using garden-variety PC clones for this sort of project. They may not be ideal for the job, but they do work. And they're getting better and cheaper all the time, and you know the supply isn't going to dry up any time soon. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 13:47:08 +0100 From: agodwin@acorn.co.uk (Adrian Godwin) Subject: IP-TNC, the beginings? To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU > > I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not fond of homebrewing > computer hardware; there's never one wire, always 8 wires or 16 wires > or 32 wires.... For me, software is where the computer action is. > > - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB Maybe this is why it's a never-ending argument - people with a software bias appreciate that the PC hardware is cheap and cost-effective. But those with a hardware bias or with a built-in distaste for intel PCs react against all the mechanical and electrical cruft that comes with the package, and long for an elegant design that does exactly the job. -adrian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 09:14:44 From: jks@giskard.utmem.edu Subject: IP-TNC, the beginings? To: nos-bbs@hydra.carleton.ca Phil Karn said: > What's wrong with PC clones? They're widely available, cheap and give > a pretty good bang for the buck. I must agree... you can get the IBM SLC and generic 386-40 motherboards for 75 to 250 us$ or used, *complete* 2/386 machines for the same price. A solid, basic version of KA9Q NOS can be used to do what you want in concert with the appropropriate I/O cards--- the pieces are all there... Why reinvent the wheel? Jack KD4IZ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 10:28:11 -0700 From: jackb@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jack Brindle) Subject: IP-TNC, the beginings? To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu >Phil Karn said: >> What's wrong with PC clones? They're widely available, cheap and give >> a pretty good bang for the buck. > >I must agree... Gosh, the chorus of "I agrees" is quickly beginning to sound like "Because it's always been done that way." There actually are better and cheaper ways to do the task, plus some folks (myself included) actually ENJOY designing hardware. I seem to recall a lot of arguments over how networking should be done about 8 or so years ago. Then a fellow with a '9' call stopped the discussion by coding things himself. Perhaps it's again time for someone to invoke the "code rule" by designing better, cheaper hardware and software. I really suspect that a combination of the two is best. There is absolutely nothing wrong wih having several networking platforms, unless one (always the "critical" one) does not implement the protocols properly. We have a decent platform based on PCs. Whay not add another (or two or three) that is specific to the task? Again, this is a hobby. Don't ridicule people for wanting to do things differently. They might actually learn something! Then Admiral Grace Hopper would no longer have to worry about the rut we have fallen into... Jack Brindle ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ham radio: wa4fib internet: jackb@mdd.comm.mot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 16:07:19 +0000 From: lat@astor.urv.es (Luis Anaya) Subject: MX or CNAME To: "Milton D. Miller II" >Do you want others to be able to ftp, gopher, etc to this address or >just send mail to it? >Do you plan on having a machine with this name later on that will still >be served by the other server? the ddd.ccc.bbbb.aaa it's ONLY a E-MAIL ADRESS, so this host non-exist. The e-mail to ddd.ccc.bbbb.aaa (xyz@ddd.ccc.bbbb.aaa) goes to ccc.bbbb.aaa host. So i only want the "name" ddd.ccc.bbbb.aaa and eee.ccc.bbbb.aaa so on for e-mail. But ccc.bbbb.aaa is a full-services host (ftp, telnet, e-mail, son on). So Is it better define a MX (Mail Exchange) like this??? ddd.ccc.bbbb.aaa MX 10 ccc.bbbb.aaa or is it better define a CNAME like this??? ddd.ccc.bbbb.aaa A CNAME ccc.bbbb.aaa Luis Anaya Internet: lat@si.urv.es Serveis Informatica Telf : 34 (9)77 559742 Universitat Rovira i Virgili (URV) Fax : 34 (9)77 Imperial Tarraco Square n. 1 43201 Tarragona (Spain) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 14:19:00 -0000 From: mikebw@bilow.bilow.uu.ids.net (Mike Bilow) Subject: MX or CNAME To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu Cc: lat@astor.urv.es LA> Is it better define a MX (Mail Exchange) like this??? LA> ddd.ccc.bbbb.aaa MX 10 ccc.bbbb.aaa LA> or is it better define a CNAME like this??? LA> ddd.ccc.bbbb.aaa A CNAME ccc.bbbb.aaa In my opinion, there are two advantages for the first format. An MX record can use a wildcard, while a CNAME record cannot. So, the whole group of mail addresses can be handled with a single line in your domain file, something like: *.ccc.bbbb.aaa. MX 10 ccc.bbbb.aaa. Another issue is that the second format will always generate an extra query in order to finally get the A record for ccc.bbbb.aaa, unless the name server is really smart and automatically attaches it to the answer to the first request. Note also that I used terminating periods on my sample MX record to specify that the domain was fully qualified. You have to be very careful about things like that in a domain file. -- Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 19:15:28 -0500 (CDT) From: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil (Steve Sampson) Subject: Router Project (TNC from Hell) To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu Ok here's a TNC project: Introduction Develop code for an MS-DOS computer using Borland C++ which has the following components: A. 386 or Better CPU Motherboard with 2 Meg of RAM B. PI2 Card with one high speed DMA port, and one 1200 baud port. C. Optional other PI2 cards. D. Optional Ethernet card using Crynwr Packet Driver code. E. One 3.5" Floppy. There will be no other options, serial ports will not exist. Prior code from NOS or JNOS can be used. The unit will not have a keyboard or display device. It is meant to be placed at a remote site. All communications with the unit will be RF or Ethernet. Purpose This device will interface the RF Local Area Network with the Baseband Local Area Network. It will allow connected and unconnected AX.25 protocol encapsulated IP to be converted to Ethernet encapsulated IP and vice versa. There will be no FTP, or SMTP, but a command oriented Telnet port for configuration will be available (both RF and Baseband access). Other RF protocols above Level 2 will not be used (Net/Rom). Home or Business units (Running TCP/IP) can interface with the unit to extend or access a network. Remote sites will not require the Ethernet, but merely route the RF. Left open is the option of using Omni or Beam antennas. Envisioned is one Omni low speed, and two beam high speed channels. Software Conversion The current NOS versions are designed for keyboard and monitor operation. Using the base code as a start, modify the program to delete all references to the keyboard and monitor. All such traffic will come from, or be directed to the Telnet port designed to replace these devices. Recomendation Use KA9Q NOS rather than JNOS. JNOS has such a large development group that it is almost unreadable. NOS on the other hand is quite readable and was designed with an editor that can handle tabs (someone deleted all the tabs in JNOS). Once the code is developed it should be frozen. Any other modifications such as BBS and interface to the washing machine and dryer should be taken to a new baseline and version name and extended from there. This version should be fixed as a small router with a command interface for configuration purposes. The intent is to operate as a backbone on both RF paths, LAN paths, and Internet paths. If a BBS is desired then a JNOS box should be interfaced to the network using Ethernet. Motto Speed is Life Comments -- Steve "Lolife" Sampson, N5OWK Tax and Spend Socialist Democrat "We can always declare bankruptcy" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 08:54:18 +0200 (DST) From: Gerard J van der Grinten Subject: Router Project (TNC from Hell) To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU Hello all, PC (!) boards are simple and in large volume to get these days, TRUE. PC boards make a easy platform, TRUE. But to just "blast" a monitor prom who forgets all about a keyboard is a task greater as writing the router code. There are a LOT of different chip sets doing mmu, refresh, and other tasks for the zillion versions of Mother(f...)boards. And the simple logic of "No keyboard present, strike F1 to continue" indeed withholds mountain top operations. Bact to the X820... I do think that building (Hardware and Software) is still a good thing. It takes "some" gutts but when I look back to the starting days of AX25 when a **9* made a nice software project on the X820, I moved that to a 6809 system with a 6854 HDLC on a system i soldered togheter in my condo in Mountain View. A real "PC" was the price of a Yougo.. Moral: Dont be afraid to take something new and start working. I don't have the resources anymore but I guess there are a LOT of them available, just waiting to be called to their duties. On the remark of " See where we got to from 1987: See where C.W. came to after 70+ years of use..... Regards, Gerard. -- Gerard J van der Grinten pa0gri@net.pa0gri.ampr.org [44.137.1.1] Elzenlaan 8 gvdg@nlr.nl (temporary qrl) 3467 TJ Driebruggen gvdg@fridley.pa0gri.ampr.org (home) Netherlands (+031)-34871606 Home. (+031)-52748435 Qrl. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 14:38:23 CST From: rtorres@tazz.coacade.uv.mx Subject: Telnet Client for JNOS To: tcpgroup@UCSD.EDU Hi!! Does somebody knows about a good Telnet Windows client for the KA9Q or JNOS?? All the telnet clients works perfectly on Unix machines but for the NOS it needs the \127 key as backspace and for enter. Greetings!! Roman Roman Torres Programmer Sysop Tazz BBS rtorres@tazz.coacade.uv.mx ------------------------------ End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #128 ******************************